He notices that Phoebe keeps grabbing for the gold ring at the top. This of course is very dangerous and there is a great risk of falling off. He then realizes that he can't stop children from doing this. "The thing is with kids is, if they want to grab for the gold ring, you have to let them do it and not say anything. If they fall off, they fall off, but it's bad if you say anything to them" (Salinger, p 211) This is the same with Holden's ideal of preserving childhood innocence. There is nothing you can do to help them keep it forever. Holden had to let go of his ideal about being the catcher in the rye because it was not realistic. .
Intelligent conversation is something that Holden feels is very difficult to find. Holden looks for very specific things in his conversations with others. He could usually only have the kind of conversation he enjoyed with people who were innocent or not phony. Holden likes his conversations to be open, honest and intelligent. He finds this in such people as Phoebe, Mrs. Morrow, and the Nuns. For example when he was talking to Mrs. Morrow on the train he specifically stated he enjoyed her and hinted several times about how he enjoyed their conversation. "The thing is, though, I liked Old Morrow's mother. She was alright." (Salinger, p 55) This was Holden's ideal of good conversation he often could not find it. .
He could not find enjoyable conversation with most people he met, expectually when he was in New York. These people include Bernice, Carl Luce and Sunny. When Holden tries to talk to these people they either don't want to talk or don't care to. Also many others Holden meets are what he considers phony, and their conversation is ruined because of this. When Sunny comes to Holden's room she does not seem at all interested in talking to him. She feels she is there to do a job and when he suggests they talk she is surprised and slightly confused. " "Don't you feel like talking for awhile?"-Are you in a very big hurry?" She looked at me like I was a mad man.